Regarding the debate on Etsy’s confusing handmade definitions I think the issue is that Etsy tries to put a equal sign between “crafter” and “indie designer” . While you can certainly be both, it is clear that the handmade label doesn’t always fit and maybe Etsy is starting to paint itself in a corner. Also I suspect that the handmade label makes some sellers unwilling to disclose assistants since it doesn’t quite rhyme with the Etsy “vibe”. Plus Etsy’s loose definitions creates a rather suspicious culture where some other sellers are constantly on the lookout for “cheaters”. And those who make time consuming crafts get jealous of the assemblers. The Swedish equivalent of Etsy is juried and include indie designers who outsource and perhaps Etsy will one day take a similar direction? Also I agree with Sam who would rather shop from Emma than from someone who doesn’t use ethical produce but happens to fit within Etsy’s “handmade” definition.

I’d whether buy from her than a reseller on Etsy who buys jewelry from China and marks it up 1000%!

or those Etsy jewelry makers who throw a “made in china” pendant on a “made in china” necklace and call it a day!

AT LEAST she CREATED the designs for her own stuff!

You are a great example for many crafters out there who wish to one day do bigger things with their businesses.

I often ask myself ” How long can I handmake my stuff?” My hands hurt, my back aches. Creating is my passion, it’s in my heart, but ultimately I am businesswoman – I don’t do this for fun, I don’t have a rich husband to depend on, I’m not a bored “nothing to do all day” hobbyist…

When many artist hear the word “outsourcing” they start acting all funny…

But the reality is we can’t “handmake” forever!!!

“* An assistant or third-party vendor’s involvement may not comprise a majority share of a handmade item’s creation.”

Let’s be real. These bags (the fabrication of which is almost totally outsourced) are not in the handmade spirit of Etsy.

Look, the Gap has designers who outsource the construction of garments in much the same way as this shop. This business model has much more in common with places like the Gap, than with knitters who make their own items on Etsy.

I like the Gap. I buy from the Gap. But the Gap doesn’t belong on Etsy. Or, Topshop if you’re in the UK.

In fact, funky stores like Topshop and Urban Outfitters often contract with people like this. Perhaps she should work on getting her stuff in trendy stores like that. I’m sure the sales would be much better than Etsy anyway…. And fairer to the people on Etsy who actually do handmake their stuff (like one is supposed to). So that they’re not trying to compete with outsourcing and the use of third world labor. Etsy was created exactly to get away from that sort of thing.

(And no. I have no shop. So this isn’t personal for me. But as someone who buys stuff from Etsy, I would be very disappointed to find my item wasn’t made by the actual shop owner. I might as well just go to the mall then.)

Okay. I’ve blabbed enough. I wish this shop no ill will. Like I said, her stuff is cute. I hope she has continued success. Just in a more appropriate place.

As a buyer and seller on etsy, and contemporary crafts collector and curator, it doesn’t bother me one bit.

Also I think the suggestion above that assumes ‘the real craft community’ and ‘selling online’ are mutually exclusive seems a little odd.

I’m also interested in the term ‘real artists’ and ‘true artists and crafters’. Personally I consider printers and print designers as real artists / crafts people.

They are also designers, and it is a common practice in design to outsource production. (In fact this happens in art and craft too, and has done throughout history, so the lines are blurry in all these practices).

I don’t think there can possibly be a ‘definition’ of what craft business means – it means something different to everyone who makes. Some don’t even call themselves crafters or artists but designers, makers or designer-makers. Some make and study, some craft while doing another full time job, some are self taught and do their craft after the kids have gone to bed and sell it on etsy, some hook mass manufactured beads on a string to make a necklace with no skill or practise or talent and call it a craft business.
And what fits in these models in USA and Europe, might look different again in India, South America, China, Africa or all sorts of other places, though any one of them might be on etsy – who’s to say which best fits a definition?

I think it’s naiive to generalise in the way some of the above comments do, there are many different business models. Emma’s is successful and within the terms and conditions of etsy’s trading.

It may not be what some people believe in on a personal level, but I think if there is a ‘craft community’ it’s better to appreciate new possibilities and opportunities which benefit makers overall. Each successful craft business will be building buyers and audience not just for themselves but other makers too. On a global scale everyone benefits – etsy is successful now precisely because all the buyers we all bring with us individually explore other sellers’ work too and so the market grows.

Congratulations Emma on managing your growth so ethically, professionally and successfully. Great news and clearly lots of others are already benefitting from you sharing your experiences.

Production assistance
Production assistance for certain intermediary tasks in some crafts may be acceptable. The following policies govern use of production assistance in the creation of handmade items:

* An assistant, under the direct supervision of the seller, may: assist with a portion of the creation process, list items in a shop, ship items, communicate with buyers, accounting or other record keeping.
* A third-party vendor may be used for intermediary tasks in some crafts. Acceptable examples include, but are not limited to: printing the seller’s original artwork, metal casting from the seller’s original mold, or kiln firing the seller’s handcrafted ceramic work.
* A third-party vendor may not fulfill your orders to your Etsy customers on your behalf (no drop-shipping).
* An assistant or third-party vendor’s involvement may not comprise a majority share of a handmade item’s creation.

What items can’t I sell on Etsy?

What cannot be sold.

Etsy’s marketplace is limited to handmade items, vintage goods and crafting supplies. All items listed in the handmade Categories must be made by the Etsy seller; we do not allow reselling of handmade goods. Mass-produced items — though they may be technically made by hand in some cases — are not in the spirit of Etsy and may not be listed in the handmade Categories.